The Robin Throne

Robin is a crucial partner. Let's face it, most people think of Robin when they hear of Batman (I know I do.). It's like.. peanut butter and jelly.

There has been over numerous Robins, 6 if I counted correctly. And they all bring something new to the table. And not all were particularly good in some aspects, but still have a special place in your hearts, I'm sure.

Dick Grayson


Jason Todd


Carrie Kelly


Tim Drake


Stephanie Brown


Damien Wayne



Bottom line, who is the BEST Robin? And who do you think has developed well after retiring the Robin attire? (Jason Todd can be excluded, but that's up to you.)

Tim Drake for me was the ultimate Robin. The main reason is he was the Robin I grew up with. I've followed him since #1 of his ongoing series and seeing him grow as a character is great. Out of all of them, he is the closest to Bruce, he's has so much tragedy in his life, he almost mirrors Bruce.

He’s nearly as good of a detective as Bruce is now and I was sad to see him leave the Robin persona, but equally happy to see Damien take the role.

I also think Tim had the best costume in the 90’s – it looked cool and practical.

For me, it's gotta be Dick Grayson. The first, the most iconic Robin. Plus, Nightwing's one of my favorites too, so yeah. Oh, and I like Tim's costume the most too, a good mix of the iconic Robin with Red and Green yet it's more functional looking (ie. it has pants).

-Gary

P.S. Just to let you know, the picture you posted under Carrie Kelly is actually Kitrina Falcone's Catgirl. Carrie's Catgirl looks like this

I think Tim was the most competent and the best written of all the characters. Jason Todd and Dick Grayson were sometimes written as spoiled annoying brats or bumbling fools who would get caught in the villains death trap. Tim was written as the opposite of a spoiled brat and he was a great partner.

I wish there was more of Stephanie Brown, her look was so cool and her time as Robin was so short. It was almost written as a gimmick Bruce pulled to piss of Tim and put him in his place, (even though Bruce said that was not true on Steph’s “Death Bed”)

Tim Drake, to me, is the best. I grew up reading his solo series.

gallegra wrote:

P.S. Just to let you know, the picture you posted under Carrie Kelly is actually Kitrina Falcone's Catgirl. Carrie's Catgirl looks like this

Oh my, my mistake! I'm sorry. I don't know too much about Carrie, only that it was very nostalgic for me to look at her. I just know of her. But thank you for clearing this up for me!

jondoe297 wrote:

Tim Drake for me was the ultimate Robin. The main reason is he was the Robin I grew up with. I've followed him since #1 of his ongoing series and seeing him grow as a character is great. Out of all of them, he is the closest to Bruce, he's has so much tragedy in his life, he almost mirrors Bruce.

He’s nearly as good of a detective as Bruce is now and I was sad to see him leave the Robin persona, but equally happy to see Damien take the role.

I concur. I grew up to him too. He was a great Robin. I was actually really depressed by the fact he had to give it up as Robin. I feel like they rushed and forced him out of it. But he is amazing as Red Robin. He's really proving all he can do and is. He is amazing. I really feel like he is the ultimate successor of Batman, in my humble opinion. I have nothing against Dick, I just feel like he is the "playboy" of all the Robins. Which he is, in a sense, considering all the women he has loved. So crazy. I have strong mixed emotions about Damien. I think he's too young. But they have to put him somewhere.. He's arrogant, and just feels like another Todd to me. I dunno about him... Maybe with time he'll grow on me - slightly.

iod1974 wrote:

I think Tim was the most competent and the best written of all the characters. Jason Todd and Dick Grayson were sometimes written as spoiled annoying brats or bumbling fools who would get caught in the villains death trap. Tim was written as the opposite of a spoiled brat and he was a great partner.

I wish there was more of Stephanie Brown, her look was so cool and her time as Robin was so short. It was almost written as a gimmick Bruce pulled to piss of Tim and put him in his place, (even though Bruce said that was not true on Steph’s “Death Bed”)

I totally agree! Todd was... he was a good fighter. I'll admit that. He's just a character with tragedy born in their blood. But he is a killer character with an amazing story. I liked him as Robin, even though he didn't fit the "criteria" for it. He's amazing as Red Hood - but AWFUL as a Batman! Goodness!
Stephanie... For some reason, I hate her. I didn't like her as the Spoiler, thought she was a joke as a Robin, and now as a Batgirl! Seriously.. I feel like she is too "normal" for any role as a hero.

One of the great things about Tim is that he is a born leader and teacher. I loved in the run up to Knightfall how he was training and teaching Jean Paul Valley (who was older than Robin). Tim's relationship with Jean Paul was one of the factors that made me think Jean Paul was a good person who just could not handle being Batman. I did not want to see Bruce take him out, but I wanted Jean Paul to be saved at the end of it all. Nightwing never seemed like a teacher or mentor to Tim, when they were out fighting crime they were more like equals or brothers.
This is one of my all time favorite covers Batman 488 - I can still remeber how I would rush to the comic store each week to read the next chapter in Knightfall.


I wish they would have done more with Jean Paul in Blackest Night. We needed to see Tim come up against Black Lantern Azrael.

Dont know why but Steph is my favorite Robin even though she was Robin for a short time, I like how they killed her too, that whole thing with Dr. Thompkins trying to send a message to the youth hopefuls. Dick is by far the most developed character after appearing as Robin though.

I want to be clear by the way, Tim Drake is a VERY close second, as many of you are saying I grew up reading him and I think he's a fantastic character and agree with all your points (including that statistically, he probably is the best Robin). However, out of nostalgia more than anything else, I have to give it to Dick.

I love Jason Todd, not as Robin necessarily but as the anti-hero/conflicted villain he is now. I hope they do more with him...

I was annoyed by Steph as Robin/Spoiler, because as was mentioned I felt like she was just there to mess with Tim. However, I really like her as Batgirl now. I feel like the fact that she's kinda "normal" grounds her, and gives her a different perspective than these sidekicks who have been partnered with a hero almost as long as they could remember or the tragedy cases who turned to heroism out of revenge. She's almost as concerned with having a normal life as she is being a crime-fighter, but yet she still takes it seriously - and I think that's a cool dynamic to play with.

@Fawks - No problem, I really had no idea what she looked like as Catgirl either, I just knew the picture you posted was from the recent story where Kitrina Falcone took on that role.

@iod1974 I TOTALLY AGREE! I think I might have mentioned it on the podcast or even here before, but I was so disappointed that they only had ONE SINGLE PANEL of Jean Paul Valley in ALL of Blackest Night. How they missed the opportunity to use him more is beyond me. They could have had him stack up against Tim, the new Azrael, or ANY of the Bat family and it would have been better. But whatever...

-Gary

gallegra wrote:

I love Jason Todd, not as Robin necessarily but as the anti-hero/conflicted villain he is now. I hope they do more with him...

I was annoyed by Steph as Robin/Spoiler, because as was mentioned I felt like she was just there to mess with Tim. However, I really like her as Batgirl now. I feel like the fact that she's kinda "normal" grounds her, and gives her a different perspective than these sidekicks who have been partnered with a hero almost as long as they could remember or the tragedy cases who turned to heroism out of revenge. She's almost as concerned with having a normal life as she is being a crime-fighter, but yet she still takes it seriously - and I think that's a cool dynamic to play with.

-Gary

I do agree with you, slightly. I think I just got spoiled by Babs and Cassie. I mean, they were great Batgirls. And Stephanie just feels like a "filler" character to me. She has no idea what to do, and acts like a girl. Like, she acts as if I started running around in a mask and cape, fighting random baddies in my town. It is a new perspective, and maybe they have something in store for her. They usually do when they revive a dead character anyways. Which brings me to my boy, Todd.

I really like him. He's not stupid. He's a great villian. Like... Robert Mitchum was thrown in the Bat-world. He's that great. They seem to have things lined up for him, because they have been promoting him somewhat, and that movie he was in. But he was amazing in "Battle for the Cowl". I was blown away. He's a great villain. I still consider him apart of the Bat-fam anyways.

But the BEST after-character development, it's really a tie between Todd and Drake. I kinda saw what they were going to see with Dick (even though I wasn't around during that time, I still figured.). But Drake has grown up, became the Red Robin, doing amazing things with his own story, and Todd being the Red Hood and all, really shook things up in Gotham. He has impact with the little limelight they allow him to have.

I kinda dogged on it a bit right after seeing it for the first time, but Under the Red Hood has really grown on me a lot! And one thing I always loved about it was Jason Todd's character in it, especially with Jensen Ackles' voice - PERFECT combo. And I really do hope they do more with him.

And I can see what you're saying, aside from Nightwing (which I do love) and taking over as Batman, I can see where you could say that Dick's story hasn't been all that impressive, just more of the same with different costumes and teammates. It might just be because of his part in Knightfall (my first comics ever), it might be because he was the first, or it might just be because he was in the most stuff as I grew up (the animated series, the two movies in the 90's) and recently (Teen Titans, The Brave and the Bold, and now Young Justice) but I just like Dick a lot. The more I think about it though, I really did love Tim's run as Robin, his also important role in Knightfall, and his character with the Titans and now Red Robin.

I always was bad at making decisions...

-Gary

gallegra wrote:

I kinda dogged on it a bit right after seeing it for the first time, but Under the Red Hood has really grown on me a lot! And one thing I always loved about it was Jason Todd's character in it, especially with Jensen Ackles' voice - PERFECT combo. And I really do hope they do more with him.

And I can see what you're saying, aside from Nightwing (which I do love) and taking over as Batman, I can see where you could say that Dick's story hasn't been all that impressive, just more of the same with different costumes and teammates. It might just be because of his part in Knightfall (my first comics ever), it might be because he was the first, or it might just be because he was in the most stuff as I grew up (the animated series, the two movies in the 90's) and recently (Teen Titans, The Brave and the Bold, and now Young Justice) but I just like Dick a lot. The more I think about it though, I really did love Tim's run as Robin, his also important role in Knightfall, and his character with the Titans and now Red Robin.

I always was bad at making decisions...

-Gary

Haha. I'm sure you're fine. The comic galaxy is twisty and curvy. I was never fully attracted to Dick. He was a cutie as Robin.. but I guess I started hating him after he broke Babs's heart. I'm a hopeless romantic when it comes to love-stories. But Dick is a playboy at best... I just get a vibe as if he's still a little kid.. and he comes off as in he doesn't know what kind of decisions to make. In "Battle for the Cowl" it took him forever to put on Batman's suit. He let things get so heavy and started taking action at the worst time.

I on the good fence with Stephanie Brown as Robin - I liked the concept and something that should have been explored a little longer... was gutten Tim stepped down for a while but still, it was one of those ideas that worked at that time...

jondoe297 wrote:

I on the good fence with Stephanie Brown as Robin - I liked the concept and something that should have been explored a little longer... was gutten Tim stepped down for a while but still, it was one of those ideas that worked at that time...

Mmhm. I guess we have to give her more time. But I do believe she fits the Batgirl role better than the Robin role.

Fawks wrote:

I do believe she fits the Batgirl role better than the Robin role.

That's not saying much though, huh?

-Gary

gallegra wrote:

Fawks wrote:

I do believe she fits the Batgirl role better than the Robin role.

That's not saying much though, huh?

-Gary

Hah, you got me! I just feel like Cassie was the rightful Batgirl. She was the female counterpart of Batman in all of his entirety.

Great thread - we talked about this for a while when recording the next podcast. Should have it up in the next couple of days.

jondoe297 wrote:

Great thread - we talked about this for a while when recording the next podcast. Should have it up in the next couple of days.

It's true, I mentioned it because after talking with you about it, Virginia, I thought it would be a really interesting discussion topic on the podcast. You should check it out, if you haven't yet.

-Gary

I'm still iffy on Cass. I never did like her as Batgirl. Although she did have the most badass Batgirl Suit. But after reading all the posts I think I would like to see her back but in a different role

I really liked Tim as Robin. Like a lot of people have said, his first suit will always be the best Robin suit, and his first solo series is one of the first comics i started collecting.

But I think Dick will always be my favorite. I think his origin is the best out of all the Robins, and Bruce seems to have a special bond with him, that he doesn't seem to have with anyone else. I love how the Animated Series portrayed his origin in Robin's Reckoning. one of the series best episodes.

As for Batgirl. I've always liked Cassandra Cain. I liked her back story, and her costume was really cool. I haven't really gotten into Stephine Brown as Batgirl yet.

I just never got into Cass as Batgirl. I think that's one of her shortfalls, that she wasn't as relatable as Steph (or really any of the other Bat-family of heroes) is. She was mute and an assassin and all that, and to be honest I just never really read anything with her in it other than No-Man's Land.

-Gary

ballpointbanana wrote:

I'm still iffy on Cass. I never did like her as Batgirl. Although she did have the most badass Batgirl Suit. But after reading all the posts I think I would like to see her back but in a different role

She really did, but she was tough. She really was a Batgirl in my opinion. Like Babs was good, she always will be in my heart, and I'm sure in many others, but I feel like the Batgirls were really weak sidekicks and Cassie really turned that around. She was Lady Shiva's kid and she's one of the greatest martial artists in the world, and Cassie fought against her, hard.
She definitely has great potential, unfortunately she has a very conflicting past/mindset, but she is back in Red Robin I believe. She's just a regular ninja-assassin-esque vigilante it looks like to me. I don't know if she has established a new name or something, but Drake did try to offer her the suit of Batgirl again, but she refused. She's definitely starting back up.

J Knight5 wrote:

I really liked Tim as Robin. Like a lot of people have said, his first suit will always be the best Robin suit, and his first solo series is one of the first comics i started collecting.

But I think Dick will always be my favorite. I think his origin is the best out of all the Robins, and Bruce seems to have a special bond with him, that he doesn't seem to have with anyone else. I love how the Animated Series portrayed his origin in Robin's Reckoning. one of the series best episodes.

As for Batgirl. I've always liked Cassandra Cain. I liked her back story, and her costume was really cool. I haven't really gotten into Stephine Brown as Batgirl yet.

Yeah. I heard from somewhere, his Robin suit was in homage for Superboy when he died? The black and red? They were close friends, I believe. And I agree with you, in numerous things, comics, shows, animated movies, when Dick and Bruce are together, their relationship with each other seems so much stronger and more realistic than with Drake and definitely Todd. I get a father and son-vibe rather than co-workers, to be blunt.

gallegra wrote:

jondoe297 wrote:

Great thread - we talked about this for a while when recording the next podcast. Should have it up in the next couple of days.

It's true, I mentioned it because after talking with you about it, Virginia, I thought it would be a really interesting discussion topic on the podcast. You should check it out, if you haven't yet.

-Gary

Why, thank you! That made me grin from ear to ear!
And I am currently in the middle of podcast #46! I'm really enjoying this. I'll get around to adding you guys on iTunes to get more recent feed. I really like what you guys talk about.

[quote="Fawks"]Yeah. I heard from somewhere, his Robin suit was in homage for Superboy when he died? The black and red? They were close friends, I believe. And I agree with you, in numerous things, comics, shows, animated movies, when Dick and Bruce are together, their relationship with each other seems so much stronger and more realistic than with Drake and definitely Todd. I get a father and son-vibe rather than co-workers, to be blunt.

Yeah, Tim did change his costume to the red and black to honor Superboy after he died. I thought it was cool that DC did this, because it matched the costume Tim used the animated series. But the first costume he had in the comics is the one I like best.

And you are right about Bruce and Dick. A father son relationship is the best way to describe it.

gallegra wrote:

and to be honest I just never really read anything with her in it other than No-Man's Land.

-Gary

yeah me neither I only read No Man's Land and a couple issues of Batgirl here and there nothing serious. I guess I never really gave her a chance for her to show us what she's like underneath the the assassin facade!? And I think I wrote her off because she is that mute assassin girl and not like Steph. Maybe I might go and pick up a trade or something