Stallone: Batman killed the action star

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/movie-talk-sylvester-stallone-blames-batman.html

I agree as far as Keaton playing Batman. I just can't picture a man that small taking down a whole group of guys in an unarmed fight. There's a reason why there's weight classes in almost every fighting sport.

At the same time, alot of the 80s "one man army" action movies were pretty cheesy. Being all buff and ripped doesn't make gunning down dozens of bad guys at a time any more realistic.

I think its actually more that you can suspend disbelief in a superhero movie more than you can in a 80s style shooter. Plus even though Keaton didn't look like the toughest guy, he could definitely act and so could his costars. You didn't see the most amazing acting in the 80s action movies.

I'm pretty sure this was spam because I removed links for ads at the bottom, but I really like the idea of this discussion. I can totally agree, that it changed the action movie altogether. I'm kinda torn though, because I love the old-school and modern action flicks for different reasons. However, if I had to pick Rocky, Rambo, Terminator and Die Hard or the newer stuff, I'd pick the former every time.

-Gary

Jon Q. Citizen wrote:

[i]I do like anything that has Bruce Willis or Arnold in it though....

You wouldn't include Stallone in that? The Rocky and Rambo flicks are some of my favorites.

-Gary

I think it's Batman's adaptability which makes him in a sense better than those action stars/movies. Those action stars are singular in their design and would only exist in a certain context within a certain stereotype. I think given Batman's long history it is safe to say that he can co exist in multiple worlds whether they be cataclysmic, realistic, unrealistic or even campy, etc. So in a sense, the action star (as it were) killed the action star by tripping itself, by not adapting to certain (other) context(s) and by staying in itself by playing whether it is in vietnam, a boxing ring, or an executive building, they stay within the confines of an oft-repeated story and persona. And this is exactly where Batman exceeds Stallone or whomever, he can be that action star, detective, emotionally disturbed, PTSD wrecked, high flying, acrobatic, athletic, dark knight. He is all these things and more and can adapt way better than those action stars of the 80's who weave the same threads as they always have.

And, I was born after Die Hard was made. I thought Die Hard was THE action movie(s) of the 80's? And Dredd played by Stallone wasn't the greatest thing in the world, the question here is: Does Karl Urban have what it takes to play Dredd?

Jon Q. Citizen wrote:

Rocky III and IV, yeah.....Rambo, ehhh.

Oh right, I forgot this was just about the 80's, not Stallone flicks in general. I can see why you'd say that, but I still love 3 and 4. 5 not so much, but then Balboa won me over again.

Jon Q. Citizen wrote:

Stallone shouldn't feel bad though...

I'm sure he'll pull through haha.

ballpointbanana wrote:

And, I was born after Die Hard was made. I thought Die Hard was THE action movie(s) of the 80's?

It's all subjective, but I wouldn't say so. Definitely up there, but there was also Rambo, Terminator, and several others featuring some of the biggest action stars around.

ballpointbanana wrote:

And Dredd played by Stallone wasn't the greatest thing in the world, the question here is: Does Karl Urban have what it takes to play Dredd?

Judging by the picture released of him in costume and what I've seen of him acting-wise, I think so!



-Gary

Haha, no problem. I'm excited to see how it is!

-Gary

Just going on the Dread part of this thread - I'm getting very excited about this movie. I didn't think the Stallone version was all that bad, they did a great job capturing the essence of Mega City One and the Dread universe. Urban looks good a Judge Dread. I read 2000AD which is another great book.

Hey Bob, how is the comic? I've never read it. Also, what do you think about the first part of this thread, that the '89 Batman killed the traditional 70's-80's action star?

-Gary

It's a fantastic read - my only gripe is the stories are always to short, but 2000AD have never messed with their continuity. The Dredd storyline has remained the same 30 years on and they continue to build on the history and lore.

I've never really thought about it, but casting my mind back I can't remember any well known action stars after the first Batman movie... before we had, Indiana Jones, John McLean, Rambo, Dirty Harry and a whole host of other action star series... I'm struggling to recall any others after this?

So yeah maybe he did...

I mean, I guess you have some. Look at the cast of the expendables; there's Jason Statham and Jet Li (Jet Li of course being a martial arts star, not an "Action Star")...and that's about it. There definitely hasn't been as many, and the ones there are aren't as spectacular.

-Gary

There hasn't been more than one movie though - apart from Bond who already had a franchise behind him and hasn't done too bad after Batman there isn't any movie or action hero who's continued. Unless its a superhero movie...

Well, there were the recent installments of Rocky, Rambo and Terminator...but that's about it as far as I know.

-Gary

Eh. The only reason I can really think of that Batman was a good movie, and from what I've seen, there's never been a good Stallone movie--especially the ones that he did more than drunkly slur his lines through.

Jay Kay wrote:

...from what I've seen, there's never been a good Stallone movie...

Someone must not have seen many Stallone movies...

-Gary